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    San Bruno fire and possible explainations

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    Karin in wa

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    San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  Karin in wa on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 4:58 pm

    Tis fire has raised many question for me. Kays thread on other board about the movie Knowing very interesting.
    Burning event?
    Multiple witnesses claim they saw a plane/missle. An od sound was heard just before explosion. There is a partial vid on youtube of a guy in his car who has film of this but not clear at this time.
    Surveys of the pipelines in the area of PG&E's pipes do not show a line large enough to cause this.
    Lots of videos right now on youtube about the GOM, more questions being raised again about the events of nine eleven. Many on the Quran burning. Youtubes HQ was just under a mile away from the epicenter of this.
    On a side note, I thought the old boards were supposed to be shut ON the 15th not UNTIL the 15th, WTF?
    Karin
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    sherryjeffries

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    No Ryan said UNTIL the 15th!

    Post  sherryjeffries on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 6:46 pm

    No Ryan said UNTIL the 15th! Rolling Eyes
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    geenee

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    Earthmovement?

    Post  geenee on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 7:24 pm

    I know this website is like National Inquirer but sheesh you just never know these days what to believe! Cnn was questioning why this would happen in a nice residential neighborhood. I used to live in this neighborhood. I went to Crestmoor High! Does anyone think it is a sign of earth movement? More gas issues in SF on Montgomery St. My gut says it's earth movement.

    http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1404.htm
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    Redhart

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    Blast showed up on USGS

    Post  Redhart on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 8:23 pm

    Here is the USGS recording of the explosion.
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/nc71453305.html#summary

    I do believe the most probable explanation is a gasline explosion at this point. And yes, they can do what was done last night. There have been other instances where a high-pressure, large gasline has exploded with deadly and catastrophic results like this.

    Reports from all kinds of media have been saying that residents of the area have been calling PG&E about a gas smell for the last three weeks. PG&E did respond and came out and checked on it...but no one was given the results of their check and if they found anything.

    You can bet there will be an investigation of what was found, how they searched for the cause and how this tragedy manifested.

    According to Kate Hutton of the USGS, there is little evidence that an earth shift was involved (although she is the one that passed along the link for the explosion recording on seismometers). There is no data that would support it at this time (but she leaves it open for investigation of the area to see what they find in a physical investigation).

    My guess is we are looking at an infrastructure failure of terrible magnitude, much like the bridge in the midwest, rather than a natural phenomenon.

    And yes, the NTSA is in charge of investigating pipeline accidents as well as air safety, btw. They always have been. This is not unusual.

    I know I will be keeping an eye and ear out for further findings when they finally are able to get in there and see what the heck happened.
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 9:05 pm

    Redhart wrote:Here is the USGS recording of the explosion.
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/nc71453305.html#summary

    I do believe the most probable explanation is a gasline explosion at this point. And yes, they can do what was done last night. There have been other instances where a high-pressure, large gasline has exploded with deadly and catastrophic results like this.

    Reports from all kinds of media have been saying that residents of the area have been calling PG&E about a gas smell for the last three weeks. PG&E did respond and came out and checked on it...but no one was given the results of their check and if they found anything.

    You can bet there will be an investigation of what was found, how they searched for the cause and how this tragedy manifested.

    According to Kate Hutton of the USGS, there is little evidence that an earth shift was involved (although she is the one that passed along the link for the explosion recording on seismometers). There is no data that would support it at this time (but she leaves it open for investigation of the area to see what they find in a physical investigation).

    My guess is we are looking at an infrastructure failure of terrible magnitude, much like the bridge in the midwest, rather than a natural phenomenon.

    And yes, the NTSA is in charge of investigating pipeline accidents as well as air safety, btw. They always have been. This is not unusual.

    I know I will be keeping an eye and ear out for further findings when they finally are able to get in there and see what the heck happened.


    So she says there is no data. Well I am sure they do not have a machine right there on that site to record movement of the earth. Creep is recorded. I know they have machinery down in was it Paso Robles? or somewhere down there. What is the evidence or documentation that there is in fact no creep there? I wouldn't so blindly go along with what someone says. I understand she is from USGS but where is the data Redhart? Is there data to document this? Just wondering. It sounds like a slow leak for awhile. Do these pipes just start leaking for no reason at all? Do they corrode over time? Something has to have caused that pipe to leak. That is the question what caused it to leak?
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    Redhart

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  Redhart on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 10:05 pm



    So she says there is no data. Well I am sure they do not have a machine right there on that site to record movement of the earth. Creep is recorded. I know they have machinery down in was it Paso Robles? or somewhere down there. What is the evidence or documentation that there is in fact no creep there? I wouldn't so blindly go along with what someone says. I understand she is from USGS but where is the data Redhart? Is there data to document this? Just wondering. It sounds like a slow leak for awhile. Do these pipes just start leaking for no reason at all? Do they corrode over time? Something has to have caused that pipe to leak. That is the question what caused it to leak?
    That is why we have to wait for an investigation on site. That would be the wise thing to do--get the data. Everything until then is simply speculation.

    San Bruno is no where near Paso Robles! How would that help?

    If you would not go blindly along with what one scientist says, then why would you go blindly along with speculation before the data is collected?

    To me, that makes no sense.

    As I see it, we simply wait now and see what the investigation on site turns up.
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 10:29 pm

    Redhart wrote:

    So she says there is no data. Well I am sure they do not have a machine right there on that site to record movement of the earth. Creep is recorded. I know they have machinery down in was it Paso Robles? or somewhere down there. What is the evidence or documentation that there is in fact no creep there? I wouldn't so blindly go along with what someone says. I understand she is from USGS but where is the data Redhart? Is there data to document this? Just wondering. It sounds like a slow leak for awhile. Do these pipes just start leaking for no reason at all? Do they corrode over time? Something has to have caused that pipe to leak. That is the question what caused it to leak?
    That is why we have to wait for an investigation on site. That would be the wise thing to do--get the data. Everything until then is simply speculation.

    San Bruno is no where near Paso Robles! How would that help?

    If you would not go blindly along with what one scientist says, then why would you go blindly along with speculation before the data is collected?

    To me, that makes no sense.

    As I see it, we simply wait now and see what the investigation on site turns up.

    That was kinda my point. I agree everything is speculation right now. As far as Paso Robles is concerned I was saying that they down there have machinery to detect movement not up in San Bruno. So for USGS to say that it is not movement is speculation.
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    DearWife

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  DearWife on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 10:50 pm

    Hi all:

    I was in the Oakland hills at the time this happened. On the way home at around 7pm, I saw in the distance south of San Francisco what appeared to be a purple tinted cloud but the more I looked it was more like smoke because on the right side it was rising upward from the ground. The smoke was moving in a southward direction. In this film @ about 0:36 and 0:50 it shows what I saw but looking eastward. You can also see the east bay hills in the distance, which is where I was, as well as where the Hayward fault lies upon.
    San Bruno Fire 9-9-10


    When I came home I didn't think to check the news because I had so much to do yesterday evening. It wasn't till this morning that I found out what I saw was from an explosion. When I read one of the articles I wondered if there was ground movement, but like Redhart mentioned there were witness reports of gas smells. And at least one person who was visiting her mother a few days prior also smelled gas but didn't report it. Her mother was at the movies at the time of the explosion but the daughter thought to see if they could salvage any belongings but there was nothing there to save because the house was gone.

    PG&E is usually good when it comes to follow up on gas smells, at least with us they have been. We've had them come out two years ago because we were smelling gas at our home and they came out ASAP.

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    Redhart

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  Redhart on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 10:59 pm

    They actually do...the Bay Area Regional Deformation network (BARD)


    Also, the USGS has a whole map of Creepmeters, Dilatometers, DTM Tensor stainmeters, GTSM Tensor strainmeters, Long Baseline Tiltmeters, Magnetometer, Pore Presure, and tiltmeters at:
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/deformation/data/?region=SF

    You can use the interactive map to click on the stations yourself and see graphs of data collected.
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 11:16 pm

    Very Interesting! So I checked the Brisbane one which is closest to San Bruno and it says multiple Instruments. Which does not indicate precisely that there is a creep meter there. There is one in Oakland. When you click on The icon it shows a strain meter and a tilt meter. Scrolling down I see a a data plot graph and clicking on the creep meter for 7 days the Palisades one shows creep. That is all. I don't think that is the one for Bruno. Tilt meters show ground rotation. There is something going on there a break in the graph but that is on the 7th. There is a strain meter also. Doesn't show a creep meter though. Very very fascinating stuff! Shocked
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    Redhart

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    more info on investigation

    Post  Redhart on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 11:37 pm


    ↑ get a load of that crater! Shocked

    Here's an article from the Christian Science Monitor about how the investigation will take place:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0910/Gas-explosion-San-Bruno-how-authorities-will-investigate-it
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Fri 10 Sep 2010, 11:41 pm

    Thanks Red! That article used the word I did and that was corrosion. Can't wait to hear about that one.
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 1:29 am

    I saw this on another forum. Can anyone comment on this?

    Going to post it again:

    My husband is an american gas fitter (and plumber) and was a firefighter in the military.
    There is NO WAY there was a 24-30" gas pipe in that residential neighborhood. Even from 1948.
    They would have had to fabricate it out of steel and it would have been $$$ and useless. There is no way to keep pressure on a line that big and no way to push the gas through.
    A 2-5" pipe (medium to high pressure) is all that is used to maintain pressure.
    A huge neighborhood has a 3" pipe.

    Even drilling gas out of the ground, they use like a 5" pipe. It's all about the pressure to move it along (@150 psi)

    No where is a 30" pipe used! It makes no sense! Gas is not like water (that can't be compressed) that runs in a large main and then diverts in smaller pipes. Gas runs under pressure in a small pipe.

    A 30" pipe is a HUGE amount of gas. VERY MASSIVE AMOUNT!! And it would be impossible to work with. They would never do it. And never build a neighborhood on it for sure!!

    Seriously, it is 10 x the size of what real gas line would be! And it wouldn't work. And it wouldn't be in a neighborhood for just this reason. And definitely not in an earthquake prone region.

    Whole story is suspicious!! I don't know what the story is but the one they are telling is obviously a lie.
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    Redhart

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  Redhart on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 2:46 am

    Um...hate to break it to you, but there's one right across the street from me. It's underground in some places, and in others it's elevated above ground. It's definitely a 24" gas line...it's on our plot maps.

    Luckily, it's not on "my" property, but I'm close enough (across the street, behind THEIR property) that if that puppy blew, we'd be in big trouble.

    It's steel.

    I can take a photo of it if you like.
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 3:01 am

    Redhart wrote:Um...hate to break it to you, but there's one right across the street from me. It's underground in some places, and in others it's elevated above ground. It's definitely a 24" gas line...it's on our plot maps.

    Luckily, it's not on "my" property, but I'm close enough (across the street, behind THEIR property) that if that puppy blew, we'd be in big trouble.

    It's steel.

    I can take a photo of it if you like.

    That was a quote from someone else not me. I was just interested in if gas goes through large pipes. I guess I need to be more clear with my postings. I am not doubting just asking about it. I don't need a photo thank you though.
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    Polly, AZ

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  Polly, AZ on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 3:40 am

    geenee wrote:I saw this on another forum. Can anyone comment on this?

    Going to post it again:

    My husband is an american gas fitter (and plumber) and was a firefighter in the military.
    There is NO WAY there was a 24-30" gas pipe in that residential neighborhood. Even from 1948.
    They would have had to fabricate it out of steel and it would have been $$$ and useless. There is no way to keep pressure on a line that big and no way to push the gas through.
    A 2-5" pipe (medium to high pressure) is all that is used to maintain pressure.
    A huge neighborhood has a 3" pipe.

    Even drilling gas out of the ground, they use like a 5" pipe. It's all about the pressure to move it along (@150 psi)

    No where is a 30" pipe used! It makes no sense! Gas is not like water (that can't be compressed) that runs in a large main and then diverts in smaller pipes. Gas runs under pressure in a small pipe.

    A 30" pipe is a HUGE amount of gas. VERY MASSIVE AMOUNT!! And it would be impossible to work with. They would never do it. And never build a neighborhood on it for sure!!

    Seriously, it is 10 x the size of what real gas line would be! And it wouldn't work. And it wouldn't be in a neighborhood for just this reason. And definitely not in an earthquake prone region.

    Whole story is suspicious!! I don't know what the story is but the one they are telling is obviously a lie.



    What is the chance of gas leaking from those pipes for 3 to 4 weeks, as some said they were smelling, and the grinding of the fault rock of the 1.1 quake ignited the gas?
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    geenee

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  geenee on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 4:18 am

    Polly, AZ wrote:
    geenee wrote:I saw this on another forum. Can anyone comment on this?

    Going to post it again:

    My husband is an american gas fitter (and plumber) and was a firefighter in the military.
    There is NO WAY there was a 24-30" gas pipe in that residential neighborhood. Even from 1948.
    They would have had to fabricate it out of steel and it would have been $$$ and useless. There is no way to keep pressure on a line that big and no way to push the gas through.
    A 2-5" pipe (medium to high pressure) is all that is used to maintain pressure.
    A huge neighborhood has a 3" pipe.

    Even drilling gas out of the ground, they use like a 5" pipe. It's all about the pressure to move it along (@150 psi)

    No where is a 30" pipe used! It makes no sense! Gas is not like water (that can't be compressed) that runs in a large main and then diverts in smaller pipes. Gas runs under pressure in a small pipe.

    A 30" pipe is a HUGE amount of gas. VERY MASSIVE AMOUNT!! And it would be impossible to work with. They would never do it. And never build a neighborhood on it for sure!!

    Seriously, it is 10 x the size of what real gas line would be! And it wouldn't work. And it wouldn't be in a neighborhood for just this reason. And definitely not in an earthquake prone region.

    Whole story is suspicious!! I don't know what the story is but the one they are telling is obviously a lie.



    What is the chance of gas leaking from those pipes for 3 to 4 weeks, as some said they were smelling, and the grinding of the fault rock of the 1.1 quake ignited the gas?


    That is what I feel. Gas leaks have to have some oxygen and an ignition device to cause an explosion. 1+1= explosion.
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    Redhart

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    Re: San Bruno fire and possible explainations

    Post  Redhart on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 5:01 am

    I was listening in to another site and there was an engineer for PG&E talking about how a high-pressure gas line can ignite itself. What happens, apparently, is just the friction of the gas escaping at such a high pressure will ignite it.

    That's what he said.
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    Polly, AZ

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    geenee -

    Post  Polly, AZ on Sat 11 Sep 2010, 11:05 pm

    geenee wrote:
    Polly, AZ wrote:
    geenee wrote:I saw this on another forum. Can anyone comment on this?

    Going to post it again:

    My husband is an american gas fitter (and plumber) and was a firefighter in the military.
    There is NO WAY there was a 24-30" gas pipe in that residential neighborhood. Even from 1948.
    They would have had to fabricate it out of steel and it would have been $$$ and useless. There is no way to keep pressure on a line that big and no way to push the gas through.
    A 2-5" pipe (medium to high pressure) is all that is used to maintain pressure.
    A huge neighborhood has a 3" pipe.

    Even drilling gas out of the ground, they use like a 5" pipe. It's all about the pressure to move it along (@150 psi)

    No where is a 30" pipe used! It makes no sense! Gas is not like water (that can't be compressed) that runs in a large main and then diverts in smaller pipes. Gas runs under pressure in a small pipe.

    A 30" pipe is a HUGE amount of gas. VERY MASSIVE AMOUNT!! And it would be impossible to work with. They would never do it. And never build a neighborhood on it for sure!!

    Seriously, it is 10 x the size of what real gas line would be! And it wouldn't work. And it wouldn't be in a neighborhood for just this reason. And definitely not in an earthquake prone region.

    Whole story is suspicious!! I don't know what the story is but the one they are telling is obviously a lie.



    What is the chance of gas leaking from those pipes for 3 to 4 weeks, as some said they were smelling, and the grinding of the fault rock of the 1.1 quake ignited the gas?


    That is what I feel. Gas leaks have to have some oxygen and an ignition device to cause an explosion. 1+1= explosion.

    geenee - those are my feeling also. It doesn't take much of a spark to set off gas fumes collecting for 3 weeks.

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