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Boppin' Along

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    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Dreemz
    Dreemz


    Posts : 105
    Join date : 2010-02-17

    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Post  Dreemz Mon 22 Feb 2010, 1:00 pm

    Why Iran's dictators can be deterred

    By Fareed Zakaria.www.washingtonpost.com
    Monday, February 22, 2010; A15

    Sarah Palin has a suggestion for how Barack Obama can save his presidency. "Say he decided to declare war on Iran," she said on Fox News this month. "I think people would perhaps shift their thinking a little bit and decide, well, maybe he's tougher than we think he is today." Such talk is in the air again. Palin was picking up the idea from Daniel Pipes, a neoconservative Middle East expert who suggested a strike would reverse Obama's political fortunes. (Actually, Palin attributed the idea to Patrick Buchanan, but she obviously entirely misread Buchanan's column, which opposed Pipes's suggestion. It's getting tiresome to keep pointing out her serial gaffes, but Palin does appear to be running for president.)

    The International Atomic Energy Agency warned last week of its "concerns" that the Iranian regime was moving to acquire a nuclear-weapons capability, not just nuclear energy. But this does not change the powerful calculus against a military strike, which would most likely delay the Iranian program by only a few years. And then there are the political consequences. The regime would gain support as ordinary Iranians rally around the flag. The opposition would be forced to support a government under attack from abroad. The regime would foment and fund violence from Afghanistan to Iraq and across the Persian Gulf. The price of oil would skyrocket -- which, ironically, would help Tehran pay for all these operations.

    It is important to recognize the magnitude of what people like Palin are advocating. The United States is being asked to launch a military invasion of a state that poses no imminent threat to America, without sanction from any international body and with few governments willing to publicly endorse such an action. Al-Qaeda and its ilk would present it as the third American invasion of a Muslim nation in a decade, proof positive that the United States is engaged in a war of civilizations. Moderate Arab states and Muslim governments everywhere would be on the defensive. And as Washington has surely come to realize, wars unleash forces that cannot be predicted or controlled.

    An Iran with nuclear weapons would be dangerous and destabilizing, though I am not as convinced as some that it would automatically force Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey to go nuclear as well. If Israel's large nuclear arsenal has not made Egypt seek its own nukes -- even though that country has fought and lost three wars with Israel -- it is unclear to me why an Iranian bomb would.

    The United States should use the latest IAEA report to bolster a robust containment strategy against Iran, bringing together the moderate Arab states and Israel in a tacit alliance, asking European states to go further in their actions, and pushing Russia and China to endorse sanctions. Former secretary of state James Baker suggested to me on CNN that the United States could extend its nuclear umbrella to Israel, Egypt and the Gulf states -- something that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has hinted at as well.

    At the same time, Washington should back the "Green Movement" in Iran, which ultimately holds out the greatest hope for a change in the basic orientation of Iran's foreign policy. It remains unclear how broad or well-organized this opposition movement is, but as a long-term strategy we should support groups that want a more modern and open Iran.

    Can we live with a nuclear Iran? Well, we're living with a nuclear North Korea (boxed in and contained by its neighbors). And we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union and Communist China.

    Iran, we're told, is different. The country cannot be deterred by America's vast arsenal of nukes because it is run by a bunch of mystic mullahs who aren't rational, embrace death and have millenarian fantasies. But this isn't and never was an accurate description of Iran's canny (and ruthlessly pragmatic) clerical elite.

    The most significant recent development in Iran has been the displacement of the clerical elite by the Revolutionary Guards, a military organization that is now the center of power. Clinton confirmed this when she warned of an emerging "military dictatorship" there. I'm not sure which is worse for the Iranian people: rule by nasty mullahs or by thuggish soldiers. But we know this: Military regimes are calculating. They act in ways that keep themselves in power. That instinct for self-preservation is what will make a containment strategy work.

    Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International. His e-mail address is comments@fareedzakaria.com.
    Calibabe
    Calibabe
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    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Re: Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Post  Calibabe Mon 22 Feb 2010, 3:54 pm

    Dreemz wrote:Why Iran's dictators can be deterred

    By Fareed Zakaria.www.washingtonpost.com
    Monday, February 22, 2010; A15

    Sarah Palin has a suggestion for how Barack Obama can save his presidency. "Say he decided to declare war on Iran," she said on Fox News this month. "I think people would perhaps shift their thinking a little bit and decide, well, maybe he's tougher than we think he is today." Such talk is in the air again. Palin was picking up the idea from Daniel Pipes, a neoconservative Middle East expert who suggested a strike would reverse Obama's political fortunes. (Actually, Palin attributed the idea to Patrick Buchanan, but she obviously entirely misread Buchanan's column, which opposed Pipes's suggestion. It's getting tiresome to keep pointing out her serial gaffes, but Palin does appear to be running for president.)

    The International Atomic Energy Agency warned last week of its "concerns" that the Iranian regime was moving to acquire a nuclear-weapons capability, not just nuclear energy. But this does not change the powerful calculus against a military strike, which would most likely delay the Iranian program by only a few years. And then there are the political consequences. The regime would gain support as ordinary Iranians rally around the flag. The opposition would be forced to support a government under attack from abroad. The regime would foment and fund violence from Afghanistan to Iraq and across the Persian Gulf. The price of oil would skyrocket -- which, ironically, would help Tehran pay for all these operations.

    It is important to recognize the magnitude of what people like Palin are advocating. The United States is being asked to launch a military invasion of a state that poses no imminent threat to America, without sanction from any international body and with few governments willing to publicly endorse such an action. Al-Qaeda and its ilk would present it as the third American invasion of a Muslim nation in a decade, proof positive that the United States is engaged in a war of civilizations. Moderate Arab states and Muslim governments everywhere would be on the defensive. And as Washington has surely come to realize, wars unleash forces that cannot be predicted or controlled.

    An Iran with nuclear weapons would be dangerous and destabilizing, though I am not as convinced as some that it would automatically force Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey to go nuclear as well. If Israel's large nuclear arsenal has not made Egypt seek its own nukes -- even though that country has fought and lost three wars with Israel -- it is unclear to me why an Iranian bomb would.

    The United States should use the latest IAEA report to bolster a robust containment strategy against Iran, bringing together the moderate Arab states and Israel in a tacit alliance, asking European states to go further in their actions, and pushing Russia and China to endorse sanctions. Former secretary of state James Baker suggested to me on CNN that the United States could extend its nuclear umbrella to Israel, Egypt and the Gulf states -- something that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has hinted at as well.

    At the same time, Washington should back the "Green Movement" in Iran, which ultimately holds out the greatest hope for a change in the basic orientation of Iran's foreign policy. It remains unclear how broad or well-organized this opposition movement is, but as a long-term strategy we should support groups that want a more modern and open Iran.

    Can we live with a nuclear Iran? Well, we're living with a nuclear North Korea (boxed in and contained by its neighbors). And we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union and Communist China.

    Iran, we're told, is different. The country cannot be deterred by America's vast arsenal of nukes because it is run by a bunch of mystic mullahs who aren't rational, embrace death and have millenarian fantasies. But this isn't and never was an accurate description of Iran's canny (and ruthlessly pragmatic) clerical elite.

    The most significant recent development in Iran has been the displacement of the clerical elite by the Revolutionary Guards, a military organization that is now the center of power. Clinton confirmed this when she warned of an emerging "military dictatorship" there. I'm not sure which is worse for the Iranian people: rule by nasty mullahs or by thuggish soldiers. But we know this: Military regimes are calculating. They act in ways that keep themselves in power. That instinct for self-preservation is what will make a containment strategy work.

    Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International. His e-mail address is comments@fareedzakaria.com.

    We have two wars going on right now. Iran, while I agree, is a threat especially with their nuclear program, is not something that we can currently take on. Personally I think the people in Iran themselves are not the problem but you have a bunch of crazy ass mullahs that are running that country with an iron fist. I remember very well when they took our embassy hostage. If Iran does something that needs a response and Obama fails on that end, he will end up like Carter. If however he responds then it depends upon the situation.

    However, all bets are off if they decide to strike at Israel. That will draw us into a war in about two nano-seconds. Rolling Eyes
    RIG
    RIG


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    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Re: Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Post  RIG Mon 22 Feb 2010, 5:02 pm

    It's all the same war... it all will lead to a greater conflagration... as with watching our society, on a greater scale watch nations... the pots have been simmering for awhile now and it's beginning to boil, just wait to see what it'll be like when it's at a full roll...
    Calibabe
    Calibabe
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    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Re: Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Post  Calibabe Mon 22 Feb 2010, 5:43 pm

    RIG wrote:It's all the same war... it all will lead to a greater conflagration... as with watching our society, on a greater scale watch nations... the pots have been simmering for awhile now and it's beginning to boil, just wait to see what it'll be like when it's at a full roll...

    Your right about beginning to boil. The only problem is that people keep stiring the pots when they should just let them be.
    Grits
    Grits


    Posts : 226
    Join date : 2010-02-21
    Age : 69
    Location : Alabama

    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Sarah Palin NEVER suggested that Obama wage war on Iran...

    Post  Grits Mon 22 Feb 2010, 10:43 pm

    This was discussed on boppin before it went down. She never suggested that and yes, she did reference Buchanan's column which I went and read and got the same impression that she did from it. She said reading his article made her think that "if" Obama played the war card it would change the political field for 2012...and it would.

    Here is the article:
    http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchanan/2010/02/05/will_obama_play_the_war_card

    Republicans already counting the seats they will pick up this fall should keep in mind Obama has a big card yet to play.

    Should the president declare he has gone the last mile for a negotiated end to Iran's nuclear program and impose the "crippling" sanctions he promised in 2008, America would be on an escalator to confrontation that could lead straight to war.

    And should war come, that would be the end of GOP dreams of adding three-dozen seats in the House and half a dozen in the Senate.

    Just setting the record straight for those that STILL think she said she can see Russia from her house (which she NEVER said either)... geek
    Bill Silver Eagle
    Bill Silver Eagle


    Posts : 70
    Join date : 2010-02-19

    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty The question .... to stir the pot or let it boil over ...

    Post  Bill Silver Eagle Tue 23 Feb 2010, 1:55 am

    Personally, I believe or think, that nearly everyone expects that there will be another World War in the future. The question is will governments or non-government terrorists continue to stir the pot so that it doesn't boil over and keep slinging their rhetoric or is someone really going to shut up, let the pot boil over and put their ass behind their words?

    As for Ms Hockey Mom or Ms Pitbull with Lipstick ... I'll just say where's the Rotweiller with Lipstick ... Smile

    I have about as much trust for Ms Palin as I do for our current POTUS. I've really gotten fed up, disturbed, etc., with all the political bull over the last three and one half years, that I'm tempted to throw my name in the hat in 2012 and create a "Common Sense Party" the only requirement for membership is that you make less than $1 million per year. I can see the press now .... A Northern Born, former Californian, Indian without papers, southern redneck is running for office. By the way he's been busted for DUI, been in jail, been fired from a job, been unemployed, worked for the federal government, served in the military, and now operates a non-profit corporation in Alabama for the perpetuation of Native American culture and tradition.

    Less government is better.
    No bennies ... i.e., Social Security unless you've paid your 40 quarters, includes Medicare.
    No Congressional retirements, you don't get a retirement for being a public servant.
    To foreign governments ... you don't want our troops in your country, say so they'll leave and we'll take with them every dollar of infrastructure we've invested.
    To terrorists or governments with terrorist tendencies ... "Go ahead make my day, but your first punch better be good, because in the paraphrased words of Bill Cosby, "I may not have brought you into this world, but I'll damn sure take you out."
    No more free rides ... we'll reinstitute a New Works Progress Administration putting American Citizens to work. American citizenship will get you hiring preference in any job.
    Want to become a Citizen, learn to read, write and speak English to atleast an Eighth grade equivalency.
    You want America's help? Are your government representatives prepared to pay for it? Barter for it?
    Balance of trade my ass. If it isn't made on United States soil, it has a tarif that will be paid on it in addition to an import tax.
    Corportions with foreign holdings: If you are based in the United States, you have two years in which to ensure that your United States employees out number your foreign employees by a three to one margin for face a significant employer tax penalty.
    Foreign businesses that want American business better have at least 25% of the workforce in the United States.
    Airline security: Enough ... everyone flys naked in the Friendly skies ... just kidding on that one. ... Smile

    and the list goes on ...

    Note with in 30 days of announcement of running for POTUS I'll be dead by assassination or mysterious accident.
    Calibabe
    Calibabe
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    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Re: Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Post  Calibabe Tue 23 Feb 2010, 3:59 pm

    Grits wrote:This was discussed on boppin before it went down. She never suggested that and yes, she did reference Buchanan's column which I went and read and got the same impression that she did from it. She said reading his article made her think that "if" Obama played the war card it would change the political field for 2012...and it would.

    Here is the article:
    http://townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchanan/2010/02/05/will_obama_play_the_war_card

    Republicans already counting the seats they will pick up this fall should keep in mind Obama has a big card yet to play.

    Should the president declare he has gone the last mile for a negotiated end to Iran's nuclear program and impose the "crippling" sanctions he promised in 2008, America would be on an escalator to confrontation that could lead straight to war.

    And should war come, that would be the end of GOP dreams of adding three-dozen seats in the House and half a dozen in the Senate.

    Just setting the record straight for those that STILL think she said she can see Russia from her house (which she NEVER said either)... geek

    Grits,

    I knew that she never said the Russia quote. I like Palin and think she is much smarter than people give her credit for. I also don't think she will run in 2012. I knew what she was commenting on when she said what she did about "it would change the political landscape for 2012".

    War with Iran, right now for us, I don't think would be a good idea, unless they do something really stupid, like a pre-emptive attack on Israel. That would draw us in like I said in a nano-second and I would rightfully say it would be justified. I just don't think with two wars currently going on that we have enough people to spread that thin. I would like nothing more than to see those crazy ass mullahs out of there. Unfortunately when the people of Iran have risen up, they were beaten back down into submission. It is a very dicey situation over there.
    Grits
    Grits


    Posts : 226
    Join date : 2010-02-21
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    Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran Empty Re: Palins suggestion to Obama RE:Iran

    Post  Grits Wed 24 Feb 2010, 1:34 am

    Hey Bill...you have more in common with Palin than you realize. tongue

    If you read her history on a non-biased website (which is hard to find I know) then you would see what she is really like. One reason (and there were more than one) that she did resign as Governor of Alaska is that she was NOT a millionaire at that time but the frivolous lawsuits against her were in the millions out of her personal pocket not to mention what it was costing the state.

    Here's an article written in 2007 that lists some of her accomplishments and yes it was written by a conservative, but you can check the facts easily:

    http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/851orcjq.asp?pg=2

    Calibabe
    I like Palin and think she is much smarter than people give her credit for. I also don't think she will run in 2012

    I think Sarah doesn't know yet what she will do, but she is definitely testing the waters. Time will tell...and yes, she is much smarter than what she is given credit for...and now that she has tasted the nastiness of national politics, I don't think she will be caught with her guard down again. She's a quick study.

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