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    Death By Medicine

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    Balance

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    Death By Medicine

    Post  Balance on Sat 20 Feb 2010, 7:35 am

    The AMA, FDA and most doctors by extension are legal drug pushers. All anyone need do is read the contraindication data on any pharmaceutical medicine, most of which have been isolated from naturally occurring compounds and then synthesized so they can be patented and profited from. Certainly doctors are necessary for certain things, but most in the western world have been through AMA designed and approved training, so book smart yes but their knowledge and bias, is evident from that same training. Has anyone ever seen any pharmaceutical drug that cures anything without causing alternative problems? The AMA and FDA are corrupt for profit entities, and a threat to humanity!

    A quote from the first link about the history of the American Medical Association;

    "The AMA opposed healing approaches such as homeopathy, a popular system based on the beliefs of a German physician that prescribed tinctures of herbs and minerals that had been so diluted as to render them biologically inactive. AMA members were traditional medical doctors, and the organization tried to ensure that institutions calling themselves medical schools were not teaching alternative or spiritual healing."

    To learn about the AMA;

    http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/American-Medical-Association-Company-History.html

    "This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year."

    "The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)"

    More Information about "Death By Medicine";

    http://www.encognitive.com/files/Part%20I--Death%20by%20Medicine.pdf

    http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2003/10/29/medical_system_is_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm

    http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

    http://lonnycancerfree.com/AMA,FDA.htm

    We are now witnessing the health industry in shambles because of the corruption of the very principal of medicine and healing, this "health care system" is everything but that, and is not designed for or interested in making anyone healthy because that would be bad for business.

    More inconvenient facts;

    http://www.corporationsandhealth.org/Prescription_Project.php

    http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/13/5.full

    The Vaccine War, vaccines cause autism in children;

    http://www.generationrescue.org/wakefield_statement.html

    http://www.usnews.com/health/managing-your-healthcare/brain-and-behavior/articles/2008/04/10/fighting-the-autism-vaccine-war.html

    The health industry as a whole and most doctors as a result of it, don't really know much about Health or what a Human really is!

    Most people still go to the doctor and follow their advice hence the fatality numbers in the above linked data. The problems in this world are systemic because people rely on others for their needs and knowledge.

    Who do you think is behind the move to outlaw vitamins, minerals, you producing your own food and learning about what you choose to?

    Choose Life, take responsibility for your own and help others with theirs to the best of your abilities daily!

    The Paradigm is changing, personal responsibility for all facets of ones life will not be optional.


    Engineering Balance.


    Last edited by Balance on Sat 20 Feb 2010, 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Calibabe
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Sat 20 Feb 2010, 7:01 pm

    Balance wrote:The AMA, FDA and most doctors by extension are legal drug pushers. All anyone need do is read the contraindication data on any pharmaceutical medicine, most of which have been isolated from naturally occurring compounds and then synthesized so they can be patented and profited from. Certainly doctors are necessary for certain things, but most in the western world have been through AMA designed and approved training, so book smart yes but their knowledge and bias, is evident from that same training. Has anyone ever seen any pharmaceutical drug that cures anything without causing alternative problems? The AMA and FDA are corrupt for profit entities, and a threat to humanity!

    A quote from the first link about the history of the American Medical Association;

    "The AMA opposed healing approaches such as homeopathy, a popular system based on the beliefs of a German physician that prescribed tinctures of herbs and minerals that had been so diluted as to render them biologically inactive. AMA members were traditional medical doctors, and the organization tried to ensure that institutions calling themselves medical schools were not teaching alternative or spiritual healing."

    To learn about the AMA;

    http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/American-Medical-Association-Company-History.html

    "This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year."

    "The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)"

    More Information about "Death By Medicine";

    http://www.encognitive.com/files/Part%20I--Death%20by%20Medicine.pdf

    http://www.communicationagents.com/sepp/2003/10/29/medical_system_is_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm

    http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

    http://lonnycancerfree.com/AMA,FDA.htm

    We are now witnessing the health industry in shambles because of the corruption of the very principal of medicine and healing, this "health care system" is everything but that, and is not designed for or interested in making anyone healthy because that would be bad for business.

    More inconvenient facts;

    http://www.corporationsandhealth.org/Prescription_Project.php

    http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/13/5.full

    The health industry as a whole and most doctors as a result of it, don't really know much about Health or what a Human really is!

    Most people still go to the doctor and follow their advice hence the fatality numbers in the above linked data. The problems in this world are systemic because people rely on others for their needs and knowledge.

    Who do you think is behind the move to outlaw vitamins, minerals, you producing your own food and learning about what you choose to?

    Choose Life, take responsibility for your own and help others with theirs to the best of your abilities daily!


    Engineering Balance.

    First off I have been in the health care industry since I was 18, so that makes it 30 years +1. While I have seen many, many changes, most of those changes are for the good. I have served as an EMT in the field, worked both the OR & ER in a number of hospitals back in NJ and have seen how medicine has changed. One area in particular breast cancer. Back in the mid '70's a woman with stage 4 BC, had almost a 95% death rate. Today, there are women that are living years after that diagnosis that certainly spelled death 30 + years ago. I know a young woman who is around 40 who has had stage 4 BC and has lived with it for 16 years now. She has had mets (metastatic cancer) that have gone to her brain, her eyes, her bones, etc., and through it all she has never once questioned why she got this disease, but is just thankful for the fact that she is still here due to the developments that have been made at facilities like UCLA and City of Hope.

    While there are things that are wrong with the system, one of those being the frivilous law suits that are filed against doctors that raise their malpractice premiums to astronomically high rates, that is one issue that certainly needs to be tackled. I personally have lost 2 of the people I loved most to cancer, my mom and dad. Both fought their battles the best they could. Both of their cancers were very agressive and I knew that from the start it was going to be an uphill battle that could end tragically. Medically I understood everything that was going on, personally, try telling that to my heart which was breaking.

    While I understand your position, there are many advances that have been made in the medical field in the last twenty years with regard to diabetes, cancer, and other diseases that have made survival possible.
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    Balance

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    Advances from the health industry?

    Post  Balance on Sat 20 Feb 2010, 8:16 pm

    Part of your comment reads; "there are many advances that have been made in the medical field in the last twenty years with regard to diabetes, cancer, and other diseases that have made survival possible."

    Please provide references to these "advances" and even one "cure", from the health industry. Please take the time to read the information provided. Thanks, Balance
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    Calibabe
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Sat 20 Feb 2010, 9:05 pm

    Balance wrote:Part of your comment reads; "there are many advances that have been made in the medical field in the last twenty years with regard to diabetes, cancer, and other diseases that have made survival possible."

    Please provide references to these "advances" and even one "cure", from the health industry. Please take the time to read the information provided. Thanks, Balance

    From Kidshealth.org:

    "The diagnosis and treatment of childhood cancers takes time, and there are both short-term and long-term side effects. But thanks to medical advances, more and more kids with cancer are finishing successful treatment, leaving hospitals, and growing up just like everybody else. Today, up to 70% of all children with cancer can be cured."

    **Childhood cancers include but are not limited to: leukemia, lymphoma, osteosarcoma (bone cancer), astrocytomas, ependymomas, brain stem gliomas, medulloblastomas and primitive neuroectodermal tumors (PNETs), craniopharyngiomas, germ cell tumors.

    **Prostate Cancer--Unlike Ovarian Cancer, prostate CA can be caught carly by DRE (digital rectal exams, otherwise known as "as short arm inspection"), PSA--prostate specific antigen test. When caught either through DRE or PSA, the survival rate of prostate cancer in men ranges in the 90th percentile making it one of the most curable cancers out there

    **Colon Cancer--through regular screenings, colonoscopies, most colon cancers can be caught early and cured. Colonoscopies provide the best resource in fighting this disease. If during a colonoscopy a polyp is discovered it can be removed, and sent for examination (pathology). Most polyps are benign but if left in the colon can turn to cancer, making the colonoscopy an important screening exam. I have over a 75% chance of developing colon cancer as I lost my father to the disease which at that point gave me a 50% chance of development. Also because I suffer from Crohn's disease and also because my grandmother had colon cancer and survived and also my uncle had it and survived (they were my dad's mother and brother) my chances of developing it are at a much higher rate than most of the population. I have been getting regular screenings since I have been 43. I have already had polyps removed. Years ago this disease was almost 98% fatal. Those number have come down with early detection but, if left untreated or if testing ignored, it still remains the 2nd highest killer among both women and men in the country.

    **Heart disease--many people with or without family histories have trouble with their heart. Because we eat a diet that has a lot more fat in it than those say 100 years ago, our chances of dying of a heart attack are far greater now than in years past. However that does not have to be. The first thing is to recognize symptoms of potential problems, like tightening of the chest, pain radiating down either arm, a localized headache, feeling flushed, etc. Most all strokes which were once also a large killer have been reduced due to people having regular check ups with their doctors and high blood pressure being diagnosed. It is referred to as the "silent killer" because high blood pressure does not typically give you many symptoms. However with medication such as HCTZ (hydrochlorothizide) and benazepril (two of the more commonly prescribed medications) many people with hypertension today lead normal lives and do not die.

    Look certainly there are plenty of disease that don't have cures, but like I said advances both in medications, treatments (such as PET Scans, CT, MRI, UTZ, Mammograms, etc.) spot these diseases in their early stages and make survival possible where years ago, that did not happen.

    While there are cures available, it doesn't mean everyone will survive. People that drive cars die because of motor vehicle accidents, other survive due to the fact that today we have better trained first responders such as EMT, Paramedics, Medi-Vac, Fire Departments,etc. If someone is seriously injuried in a MVA, and they receive care and are brougt to an ER within what is called "The Golden Hour" their chance of survival from the injuries they sustained overwhelming improves. Because of the training and the advances made just there, people today live to tell their story. Again, that doesn't mean that everyone that is involved in an MVA that is serious survives, but your chances of survival today are greater than they were say even 10 years ago.

    Look, if you want to cavetch about the health care system, fine. But let me ask you this, if our system is so bad, why do so many people come here to this country to be treated?


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    Balance

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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Balance on Sat 20 Feb 2010, 9:42 pm

    "The total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US."

    "70% of all children with cancer can be cured."

    By terrible methods seriously affecting their life condition and future health.

    Kidshealth.org =

    Nemours leads as a model of health policies and programs that seeks to transform our country’s health care system from a focus on sickness to a focus on wellness. And we’re using our expertise to contribute to the advancement of national health policies that improve the health of all children, not just the children we directly serve.

    Based in Washington, D.C., the Nemours Office of Child Health Policy and Advocacy will build on the expertise of Nemours to advocate for:

    * Policies to promote integrated systems of medical care and population-based prevention initiatives
    * Improvement in healthy eating and physical activity standards for children, particularly in child care settings
    * Increased federal funding for community-based obesity prevention initiatives

    "The AMA opposed healing approaches such as homeopathy, a popular system based on the beliefs of a German physician that prescribed tinctures of herbs and minerals that had been so diluted as to render them biologically inactive. AMA members were traditional medical doctors, and the organization tried to ensure that institutions calling themselves medical schools were not teaching alternative or spiritual healing."

    "Look, if you want to cavetch about the health care system, fine. But let me ask you this, if our system is so bad, why do so many people come here to this country to be treated?"

    Many get health care for free, most don't know about alternatives.

    kvetch (kvch) Slang
    intr.v. kvetched, kvetch·ing, kvetch·es
    To complain persistently and whiningly.

    There is only one person so far kvetching about this post.

    Earth Watcher

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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Earth Watcher on Sun 21 Feb 2010, 11:17 am

    Thank you Balance for the information.

    I also believe there is too much money in the medical field for there to actually be cures. Otherwise - hydrogen peroxide would be used for the curing of cancers etc.

    The real cures that have been found have been have been stopped by the trillion dollar medical field and pharma cos.

    Money drives the medical field not cures. I read on websites "one day we will find the cure"! I just shake my head and laugh - but most people believe they are actually looking for the cure.
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Sun 21 Feb 2010, 7:57 pm

    Balance wrote:The Vaccine War, vaccines cause autism in children;

    How old are you?

    Did you attend school in the United States?

    If so, then you received a series of vaccinations, correct?

    Those vaccinations were the same in the '50, '60, '70, '80's & '90 as they were before all the "hysteria" about autism came about.

    So if you were born in any of these decades, do you have or are you autistic?

    If not, then why? If the vaccinations caused autism, they why isn't every child that received a vaccine autistic?

    I truly believe that there is an environmental cause associated with autism. I also believe that there is a genetic cause as well.

    So if you can answer those first few questions, I would really appreciate your response.


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    And I'll be dancing with myself"-Billy Idol

    trapper/kcmo

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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  trapper/kcmo on Sun 21 Feb 2010, 8:35 pm

    those vaccines were not the same. just like the formulation for corn flakes has changed, so has everything else. and it keeps changing. some are better and some are worse but none of them are good. all the changes are driven by the bottom line, not improving the human condition.

    also, there were not as many environmental toxins then, including way more mercury exposure.

    vaccines are a scam.

    Mae

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    Autism

    Post  Mae on Sun 21 Feb 2010, 9:49 pm

    Calibabe wrote:
    Balance wrote:The Vaccine War, vaccines cause autism in children;

    How old are you?

    Did you attend school in the United States?

    If so, then you received a series of vaccinations, correct?

    Those vaccinations were the same in the '50, '60, '70, '80's & '90 as they were before all the "hysteria" about autism came about.

    So if you were born in any of these decades, do you have or are you autistic?

    If not, then why? If the vaccinations caused autism, they why isn't every child that received a vaccine autistic?

    I truly believe that there is an environmental cause associated with autism. I also believe that there is a genetic cause as well.

    So if you can answer those first few questions, I would really appreciate your response.


    A review of medical literature indicates that the characteristics of autism and of mercury poisoning (HgP) are strikingly similar. Traits defining or associated with both disorders are summarized in Table A immediately following the Table of Contents and are discussed and cited in the body of this document. The parallels between the two diseases are so thorough as to suggest, based on total Hg injected into U.S. children, that many cases of autism are a form of mercury poisoning.

    http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/July2001/AutismUniqueMercPoison.htm
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 12:36 am

    Mae wrote:
    Calibabe wrote:
    Balance wrote:The Vaccine War, vaccines cause autism in children;

    How old are you?

    Did you attend school in the United States?

    If so, then you received a series of vaccinations, correct?

    Those vaccinations were the same in the '50, '60, '70, '80's & '90 as they were before all the "hysteria" about autism came about.

    So if you were born in any of these decades, do you have or are you autistic?

    If not, then why? If the vaccinations caused autism, they why isn't every child that received a vaccine autistic?

    I truly believe that there is an environmental cause associated with autism. I also believe that there is a genetic cause as well.

    So if you can answer those first few questions, I would really appreciate your response.


    A review of medical literature indicates that the characteristics of autism and of mercury poisoning (HgP) are strikingly similar. Traits defining or associated with both disorders are summarized in Table A immediately following the Table of Contents and are discussed and cited in the body of this document. The parallels between the two diseases are so thorough as to suggest, based on total Hg injected into U.S. children, that many cases of autism are a form of mercury poisoning.

    http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/July2001/AutismUniqueMercPoison.htm


    Well this article says the data was manipulated for the MMR (Measles,Mumps,Rubella), so for each of the ones that state autism is caused by vaccines, there are others that state data is manipulated.

    It still doesn't answer the question if there are children who do receive vaccines, why are not all autistic?


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    Balance

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    Genius

    Post  Balance on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 6:45 pm

    Your questions addressed:

    1) Not as old as you and still open to learning.

    2) Yes I did.

    3) Not correct.

    4) That is like saying that autos remained the same throughout the same decades referenced. Just when did "Hysteria" about autism come about? If you took your precious perfectly healthy child to a doctor for immunization, where a doctor then injects your child with a vaccine, and the next day your child wakes up with autism, would you be alright with it, or would you be so upset as to be considered hysterical?

    5) The need to quote has arisen,"So if you were born in any of these decades, do you have or are you autistic?" Yes I was born in one of those decades, and no I don't have autistic nor am I autistic.

    6) "if not, then why? If the vaccinations caused autism, they why isn't every child that received a vaccine autistic?"
    Was never vaccinated so will never know. The same reason some adults don't know how to formulate sentences or use spell check. We are all unique.

    7) The statement that you "truly believe that there is an environmental cause associated with autism and that there is a genetic cause as well" Is frightening because you believe it and is none the less contradictory, it would be one or the other, and again shows you have not read the referenced data published by MD's and PhD's, it also creates a question about your ability to reason.

    So you have my answers to your questions, now for analysis.

    You stated that you have been in the health care industry since you were 18, which makes it 30 years plus one, which would make you 49, indicating that you were born in 1960 or if you have already had a birthday this year, 1959. Yet you have referenced the 1950's in your kvetches, while in truth having no personal reference for that decade. Therefore eliminating your credibility!

    You go on to state that you have seen many changes, most of those changes are for the good, which means some are for the worse, and while there have been changes in technology since then, the medical care itself has always been as set forth by the AMA nothing has really changed.

    Further you state that you have served as an EMT in the field, and worked both in the OR and ER, as an EMT you are in emergency services not health care! And just because you may have been in both of those rooms does not make you a part of the health care industry.

    You go on to blather about breast cancer, spouting about unreferenced statistics people that you know and developments that have been made, lawsuits malpractice doctors and even facilities. Which by the way are meaning less because you have no credibility.

    I have posted methods by which all cancer can be cured and can be learned about here in case you have missed it;

    http://boppinalong.finddiscussion.com/health-f7/cancer-cures-t110.htm

    Because of your passionate support of the heath care industry, it is not hard to hypothesize that you would not try alternative healing methods even if they may actually save someone you love, because they are not accepted practice.

    In the very near future personal responsibility for all facets of ones life will not be optional.

    There are others here that due appreciate what I have posted, have stated so and added to it. To those I say thank you for being open to learning and sharing your knowledge with others.

    Other than one reference to a website which is AMA establishment approved with no supporting datum, you have provided no foundation for your kvetching. While I and others have posted information that has been researched and published by MD's and fellow PhD's.

    While I am not one of the previous members of EB, I learned about this forum, from a post in another I belong to that spoke highly of it. So decided to join and share information. However am not feeling very welcome.

    It was my impression that forums such as this rely on quality information being posted so that others may learn from that information. All of the information I have posted here has been fully researched and referenced!
    And actually read by some.

    With an administrator like you, that attempts to refute and diminish quality researched and documented information that other members have clearly shown appreciation of and seems popular as per read count, there is certainly no need for disinformation agents on this forum.

    You are the only one taking issue with this post, perhaps you should look at the actual reasons for your objections.
    As you are doing a disservice to the members of this community.

    There will be no further discussion on this topic unless you can supply actual researched and documented evidence that is contrary to the original post. Good luck with that.

    Your opinion kvetching and credibility are heretofore and after meaningless!

    Balance PhD
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    Calibabe
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 8:19 pm

    Balance wrote:Your questions addressed:

    1) Not as old as you and still open to learning.

    2) Yes I did.

    3) Not correct.

    4) That is like saying that autos remained the same throughout the same decades referenced. Just when did "Hysteria" about autism come about? If you took your precious perfectly healthy child to a doctor for immunization, where a doctor then injects your child with a vaccine, and the next day your child wakes up with autism, would you be alright with it, or would you be so upset as to be considered hysterical?

    5) The need to quote has arisen,"So if you were born in any of these decades, do you have or are you autistic?" Yes I was born in one of those decades, and no I don't have autistic nor am I autistic.

    6) "if not, then why? If the vaccinations caused autism, they why isn't every child that received a vaccine autistic?"
    Was never vaccinated so will never know. The same reason some adults don't know how to formulate sentences or use spell check. We are all unique.

    7) The statement that you "truly believe that there is an environmental cause associated with autism and that there is a genetic cause as well" Is frightening because you believe it and is none the less contradictory, it would be one or the other, and again shows you have not read the referenced data published by MD's and PhD's, it also creates a question about your ability to reason.

    So you have my answers to your questions, now for analysis.

    You stated that you have been in the health care industry since you were 18, which makes it 30 years plus one, which would make you 49, indicating that you were born in 1960 or if you have already had a birthday this year, 1959. Yet you have referenced the 1950's in your kvetches, while in truth having no personal reference for that decade. Therefore eliminating your credibility!

    You go on to state that you have seen many changes, most of those changes are for the good, which means some are for the worse, and while there have been changes in technology since then, the medical care itself has always been as set forth by the AMA nothing has really changed.

    Further you state that you have served as an EMT in the field, and worked both in the OR and ER, as an EMT you are in emergency services not health care! And just because you may have been in both of those rooms does not make you a part of the health care industry.

    You go on to blather about breast cancer, spouting about unreferenced statistics people that you know and developments that have been made, lawsuits malpractice doctors and even facilities. Which by the way are meaning less because you have no credibility.

    I have posted methods by which all cancer can be cured and can be learned about here in case you have missed it;

    http://boppinalong.finddiscussion.com/health-f7/cancer-cures-t110.htm

    Because of your passionate support of the heath care industry, it is not hard to hypothesize that you would not try alternative healing methods even if they may actually save someone you love, because they are not accepted practice.

    In the very near future personal responsibility for all facets of ones life will not be optional.

    There are others here that due appreciate what I have posted, have stated so and added to it. To those I say thank you for being open to learning and sharing your knowledge with others.

    Other than one reference to a website which is AMA establishment approved with no supporting datum, you have provided no foundation for your kvetching. While I and others have posted information that has been researched and published by MD's and fellow PhD's.

    While I am not one of the previous members of EB, I learned about this forum, from a post in another I belong to that spoke highly of it. So decided to join and share information. However am not feeling very welcome.

    It was my impression that forums such as this rely on quality information being posted so that others may learn from that information. All of the information I have posted here has been fully researched and referenced!
    And actually read by some.

    With an administrator like you, that attempts to refute and diminish quality researched and documented information that other members have clearly shown appreciation of and seems popular as per read count, there is certainly no need for disinformation agents on this forum.

    You are the only one taking issue with this post, perhaps you should look at the actual reasons for your objections.
    As you are doing a disservice to the members of this community.

    There will be no further discussion on this topic unless you can supply actual researched and documented evidence that is contrary to the original post. Good luck with that.

    Your opinion kvetching and credibility are heretofore and after meaningless!

    Balance PhD

    I have tried alternative health care remedies, such as red rice yeast to control cholesterol that is high. Works better than Lipitor or any statin drug out there without the symptoms that you get from taking statins.

    Being an EMT is being a member of the health care services. What are you providing if not care for the injuried or their health?

    While you like to keep going on about the increase in autism associated with vaccines, I again point out an article that showed that date for the MMR vaccine was manipulated. It still also doesn't answer the question as to if the vaccines are in fact the culprit in causing autism why are not all children who receive vaccines autistic. The people who rail against vaccines as being the cause, don't see the forest through the trees.

    Yes, I would be upset if my child who was healthy and went for a vaccine and then the next day became autistic after the vaccine, but I do have enough knowledge to know that everything is not how it appears. Maybe the vaccine is the cause, maybe it is not. There is not enough clear cut evidence that point to a 100% reason to suggest that the vaccines are in fact the culprit.

    It is not my intention to be unwelcoming. I am just posting info from another point of view, just as you do. There are no clear cut answers, that is all that I am stating. Here are just a few:

    http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-02-07/opinion/17848204_1_andrew-wakefield-vaccines-autism

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/12/vaccines-do-not-cause-autism/

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/514585

    http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2009/06/vaccines-do-not-cause-autism.html

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/185853

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/186133

    The reason I added the 1950's to the list is due to the fact that the 1950's had probably one of the largest if not largest immunization rates of children. Most children going to school in the '50 & '60 could not enter unless they received the required immunizations. Period. There were no exceptions. You either received them or you didn't go to public or even parochial school. So there in again, the immunizations during this time did have thimersol in them, same quantities as today. As you will note especially with the last link I provided, there are just as many pro and anti-immunization articles, as I previously noted.

    What about the lives that have been save due to the eradication of polio amd smallpox? Countless lives were saved due to these vaccines being implemented and used. Any drug out on the market is always subject to cause a reaction in someone. Even aspirin and tylenol cannot be tolerated by a certain portion of the public. Should we ban the use of aspirin and tylenol because they contain agents in them that specific people can't tolerate? What about people who drank and got liver damage from tylenol? Does that mean we ban tylenol? See there is a cause as to why the liver damage happened. It was a combination of effect of both drug and alcohol. Even Robert F Kennedy Jr, who I don't usually agree with even has said that thimersol is not the cause of autism and that it is environmental in nature. We have polluted this planet long before we ever thought about the consequences. Look at Love Canal in NY as a prime example. Thousands of pounds of toxic chemicals from the chemical plant there were dumped. NJ has one of the highest number of superfund sites of any state.

    We can sit and argue the facts day and night. I am not saying that you are wrong, but I am not saying you are right. Everyone has a right to their own opinion based upon the facts that they have reviewed, seen or experienced.

    I will give you this, you did peg my age correct. I am also not kvetching. Trust me, someone here would know if I was kvetching. I did however go to great lengths to not call your posts meaningless. I do read and look at different opinions from all sides and then based upon a preponderance of the evidence that I look at and examine, I am able to draw a conclusion as to what I feel are the relevant facts at hand.

    I hope that you do stay, but the choice is your. I would think that a spirited debate with an exchange of ideas would be better than a lopsided argument but I will let you be the judge on that.


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    Calibabe
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 9:25 pm

    Well certainly a death sentence when it first appeared around 1983-84, HIV possibly has light at the end of the tunnel:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/aids-is-the-end-in-sight-1906467.html

    I remember in nursing school and working in both the ER & OR, and having to attend 8 in-service programs in 1984-85. Each in-service program changed its protocols, with the last one attended by a representative from the CDC. They were advising us at the time to double gown, double mask, double glove, and double bootie when we went into patients rooms with external precautions (these were red/pink signs, which now no longer exist, which is a good thing). I raised my hand and asked "Well, if from the previous in-services that we have been to, and from what we have been told, that this virus is not airborne in any context that you can find, why are we having to double gown, mask, glove and bootie, if there is nothing that is viral that will be at risk to us? I got a blank look from the CDC rep and I appropriately got up and walked out and went back to my station in ICU. It was an utter waste of time. I learned how to draw blood without gloves (for any number of tests and off A-line). I did arterial blood gases without gloves (ABG's). I never worried about catching HIV from doing what I was doing. It was just such an extreme and these patients at that time were being treated like lepers. People would see those "beaming red/pink" signs and they would literally cross to the other side of the hallway in the hospitals. The only time I had any fear associated with a blood draw was when I was drawing blood from a patient with sepsis who had Parkinsons. Well I put the needle in to draw, she fliched, as the needle was coming out and it nicked my finger. I had to report it and I was pretty healthy and my supervisor of nursing was "Oh my gosh, you gotta get tested" and was all frantic. I told her I would monitor my own condition, knowing the symptoms that begin to set in with sepsis. After 5 days and being asymptomatic, I continued on. I went on accident scenes without gloves. It is hard enough working in the field without having latex. However now I would not do anything without the gloves. After a while you get used to them. The biggest thing was the dexterity of finding the vein. Once you get past that, you are home free.

    Ask SoCal, she can tell you, I can hit a fly on a bulls ass and not make it twitch when I draw blood. I did her's when she had pneumonia and did all of her hospital care in pedi's. I even yelled at the tech that came up to put a heprin lock in her hand due to her having to have rocephin and I held her hand as she wanted me to, but the tech wasn't good and they missed and I told them they missed and she started to pool. Well rocephin is really caustic and she started screaming and I looked and told the tech "pull the fucking thing out NOW", which she did, but then she tells me "Well she moved, I never miss". I said "No way sweetheart, I was holding her hand and I didn't flinch you missed, now go get the nursing supervisor". Well she knew me and we put the heprin lock in without further incident, but I really felt for SoCal with an icepack on her hand and tears streaming down her face when that happened. I was pissed Twisted Evil I am pretty easy going but mess with my family, especially my kids and the gloves come of and momma bear comes out. Then after that entire episode of 7 days in pedi's she comes home and than she got chickenpox and I had to draw her blood for some labs. Whenever we went to the lab she would tell the tech, "My mommie is gonna stick the needle in my arm, not you". So the lab would let me do the draw and she wouldn't flinch a bit.

    In any event it is a good thing that they appear to be getting near a cure of this disease with proper administration of the anti-retrovirals. I always felt a compassion for those who got this disease whether or not due to their behavior or through no fault of their own. It was a horrible way back then to watch someone die and know that there was nothing, not a damn thing we could do to help other than to give them palative care to keep them comfortable. I hope this doctor is correct. I sure would love to see this disease eradicated.


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    Diseases

    Post  Balance on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 10:29 pm

    Diseases will never be eradicated until those with disease or those making the decisions for those with disease, choose to use something that can actually eliminate the disease, so much the better if it does not adversely affect the patient being treated.
    To practice the same methods that allow for an acceptable percentage of loss while alternatives offer a better way is unacceptable. To deny the validity of proven unbiased scientific studies while accepting obvious propaganda as an acceptable substitute is a personal choice. But does not refute the evidence provided.

    From the original post which references studies done by doctors with only the truth as their motivation, not shills pushing propaganda in the Main Stream Media to support this outdated and dying paradigm.

    "This fully referenced report shows the number of people having in-hospital, adverse reactions to prescribed drugs to be 2.2 million per year. The number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections is 20 million per year. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million per year. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million per year."

    "The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)"

    The same cures for cancer work for all other diseases as well and can be learned about here:

    http://boppinalong.finddiscussion.com/health-f7/cancer-cures-t110.htm

    Actually curing someone is bad for business and business has never been better.

    If learning is an interest, this is a fascinating discovery with heretofore unimaginable implications.

    http://www.viewzone.com/dna.html

    Engineering Balance.
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    Betty in Texas

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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Betty in Texas on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 10:50 pm

    Well, I am sorry that I did not have the patience to read every sentence of this long article, but frankly when it comes to big pharma, I simply do not trust them. They are in it for the money and that is the bottom line.

    Cancer is big business and they have a lot of money wrapped up in it. Big pharma does not want a cure. It would dump their gravy train.

    I have seen simple medicines that have been on the market for many years, like blood pressure medicine, skyrocket in price when it only cost them pennies to make.

    I was given prescription Lyrica for an intensely inflamed neck injury. One pill made me so sick I thought I would die. Had to throw an $80 bottle in the trash. The doctor should have given a test pill to see how I reacted first. Since time I have read a lot of bad reports. I honestly think a lot of these drugs get on the market because enough money is slipped into the hands of the FDA not from rigorous testing of the drug.

    I have an autistic nephew born in the early 80's. After his mandatory vaccinations, he got sick. He has never spoken a word. No one can figure out why.
    Betty
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    Vaccines Cause Autism.

    Post  Balance on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 10:52 pm

    For those with an aversion to reading.



    Autism Not Genetic

















    Last edited by Balance on Sun 28 Feb 2010, 4:46 am; edited 3 times in total
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    After Vaccinations

    Post  Balance on Mon 22 Feb 2010, 11:15 pm

    Betty I am very sorry to hear about your nephew unfortunately the problems that cause it are systemic in this society. Blessings to you and your nephew. B
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    Calibabe
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Tue 23 Feb 2010, 12:07 am

    Betty in Texas wrote:Well, I am sorry that I did not have the patience to read every sentence of this long article, but frankly when it comes to big pharma, I simply do not trust them. They are in it for the money and that is the bottom line.

    Cancer is big business and they have a lot of money wrapped up in it. Big pharma does not want a cure. It would dump their gravy train.

    I have seen simple medicines that have been on the market for many years, like blood pressure medicine, skyrocket in price when it only cost them pennies to make.

    I was given prescription Lyrica for an intensely inflamed neck injury. One pill made me so sick I thought I would die. Had to throw an $80 bottle in the trash. The doctor should have given a test pill to see how I reacted first. Since time I have read a lot of bad reports. I honestly think a lot of these drugs get on the market because enough money is slipped into the hands of the FDA not from rigorous testing of the drug.

    I have an autistic nephew born in the early 80's. After his mandatory vaccinations, he got sick. He has never spoken a word. No one can figure out why.
    Betty

    Betty,

    I am sorry to hear about your nephew. Also about your experience with Lyrica. If in the future you go to a physician, ask for a sample, most every doctor I know gets them. If they don't have a sample ask him what he does have that is similar to see if you can tolerate it.

    FDA certainly does hold back on approval for drugs, there is no doubt to that. Some of it is valid, some of it is not. As I said previously, there are people who cannot take aspirin. Each of us are different in our reactions to drugs.

    My son went through surgery in 2007, twice. He had a pilonidal cyst. We attempted to treat it holistically first with sylica and with grapeseed extract. Nothing happened and the cyst only got worse. Finally we had no choice and had to go to the physician and he referred to a surgeon who removed it. The problem was, he closed my son directly after surgery instead of leaving the area open with packing to drain and close from the inside out. Six months later my son calls me into the bathroom and says he thinks something is wrong again. Sure enough it looked like someone took a scapel to his backside and went 1 inch down his incision line and opened that sucker up. This time I went to a different surgeon who I knew, and he left the surgical site open. My son went through roughly 4 1/2 months of packings and wound vac for closure. I hated it every time the door bell rang because it meant that the home health nurse was there to change the dressings. It was so painful for me to watch him go through them tearing off the dressing for the wound vac and then replacing the packing. His first nurse after the surgery removed the packing, and repacked him. Unfortunately he wound up with an active bleeder that wound up hemorrhaging and a trip to the ER was required. I couldn't pack him. Maybe that sounds like a coward but I have changed many, many pilonidal cysts sites. I just could not bring myself to do it. Then after the surgery he was still having intense pain. Went to pain management(for epidural injections) which did nothing but the good that came out of it was a referral to a chiropractor who is just the bomb. He put my son through spinal decompression after they found out he had a 6mm herniated disc in his lower back. When I got that report I sat and cried my eyes out because I felt I had caused this to happen to him because of what I have wrong with my back. He took it like a trouper. Anyway, one day we were walking in and the assistant said to me "Do you want to see the doctor, you look like you are in pain". I brushed her off nicely at first but she said, no really he has the time. Let him take a look. Well I will tell you what. After a number of adjustments I was off a number of the medications that they put me on for my back and I am now down to just three, and I take those at night. Other than that I am fine. They used a laser that they use for sports injuries on my hip and I have not had pain in my left hip since. My right one kills me every now and then but the left, no problem with. Also took some inflammation defense supplements to help as well. All in all I say we see him about twice a month now when we were going three to four times a week. It feels awfully nice to get an adjustment and I once treated myself to an hour long massage by their therapist. Oh how good that felt and then the adjustment. I was walking on a cloud when I left that office.

    So I do go outside the norm if I think treatment doesn't work. Like I said, I have seen a lot in 30 years. While our system is not perfect by any means, we certainly have one of the best health care systems in the world because of the number of different modalities that are out there for people to use. You also don't have a year long wait to get seen if you have a problem.


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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Tue 23 Feb 2010, 12:08 am

    Calibabe wrote:
    Betty in Texas wrote:Well, I am sorry that I did not have the patience to read every sentence of this long article, but frankly when it comes to big pharma, I simply do not trust them. They are in it for the money and that is the bottom line.

    Cancer is big business and they have a lot of money wrapped up in it. Big pharma does not want a cure. It would dump their gravy train.

    I have seen simple medicines that have been on the market for many years, like blood pressure medicine, skyrocket in price when it only cost them pennies to make.

    I was given prescription Lyrica for an intensely inflamed neck injury. One pill made me so sick I thought I would die. Had to throw an $80 bottle in the trash. The doctor should have given a test pill to see how I reacted first. Since time I have read a lot of bad reports. I honestly think a lot of these drugs get on the market because enough money is slipped into the hands of the FDA not from rigorous testing of the drug.

    I have an autistic nephew born in the early 80's. After his mandatory vaccinations, he got sick. He has never spoken a word. No one can figure out why.
    Betty

    Betty,

    I am sorry to hear about your nephew. Also about your experience with Lyrica. If in the future you go to a physician, ask for a sample, most every doctor I know gets them. If they don't have a sample ask him what he does have that is similar to see if you can tolerate it.

    FDA certainly does hold back on approval for drugs, there is no doubt to that. Some of it is valid, some of it is not. As I said previously, there are people who cannot take aspirin. Each of us are different in our reactions to drugs. Also many of the drug companies today have patient assistance programs that provide the medications with a physicians prescription at little or no cost. I know because I have set up three patient assistance programs with the offices I have worked with and for. Most of the people don't even know that they exist.

    My son went through surgery in 2007, twice. He had a pilonidal cyst. We attempted to treat it holistically first with sylica and with grapeseed extract. Nothing happened and the cyst only got worse. Finally we had no choice and had to go to the physician and he referred to a surgeon who removed it. The problem was, he closed my son directly after surgery instead of leaving the area open with packing to drain and close from the inside out. Six months later my son calls me into the bathroom and says he thinks something is wrong again. Sure enough it looked like someone took a scapel to his backside and went 1 inch down his incision line and opened that sucker up. This time I went to a different surgeon who I knew, and he left the surgical site open. My son went through roughly 4 1/2 months of packings and wound vac for closure. I hated it every time the door bell rang because it meant that the home health nurse was there to change the dressings. It was so painful for me to watch him go through them tearing off the dressing for the wound vac and then replacing the packing. His first nurse after the surgery removed the packing, and repacked him. Unfortunately he wound up with an active bleeder that wound up hemorrhaging and a trip to the ER was required. I couldn't pack him. Maybe that sounds like a coward but I have changed many, many pilonidal cysts sites. I just could not bring myself to do it. Then after the surgery he was still having intense pain. Went to pain management(for epidural injections) which did nothing but the good that came out of it was a referral to a chiropractor who is just the bomb. He put my son through spinal decompression after they found out he had a 6mm herniated disc in his lower back. When I got that report I sat and cried my eyes out because I felt I had caused this to happen to him because of what I have wrong with my back. He took it like a trouper. Anyway, one day we were walking in and the assistant said to me "Do you want to see the doctor, you look like you are in pain". I brushed her off nicely at first but she said, no really he has the time. Let him take a look. Well I will tell you what. After a number of adjustments I was off a number of the medications that they put me on for my back and I am now down to just three, and I take those at night. Other than that I am fine. They used a laser that they use for sports injuries on my hip and I have not had pain in my left hip since. My right one kills me every now and then but the left, no problem with. Also took some inflammation defense supplements to help as well. All in all I say we see him about twice a month now when we were going three to four times a week. It feels awfully nice to get an adjustment and I once treated myself to an hour long massage by their therapist. Oh how good that felt and then the adjustment. I was walking on a cloud when I left that office.

    So I do go outside the norm if I think treatment doesn't work. Like I said, I have seen a lot in 30 years. While our system is not perfect by any means, we certainly have one of the best health care systems in the world because of the number of different modalities that are out there for people to use. You also don't have a year long wait to get seen if you have a problem.


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    Nightmoves

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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Nightmoves on Tue 23 Feb 2010, 12:36 am

    I have to say that while I don't believe everyone in the medical field is out to kill us, I do believe that the medical industry needs a complete overhaul. After working in the health-care insurance business for 5 years, I saw pros and cons and believe me the cons need to be straightened out. I have said many times that when insurance companies regulations stopped being controlled and they became profit making, all hell broke loose. It is time for the government to step up to the plate and fix these problems. All health-care should NOT be profit making and that includes these big pharmacy industries. It's time to bring CARE back to medicine.

    While your average health-care workers still have the calling to help people, big pharmacy and insurance companies only care about the money. We asked our doctor what he thought about the H1N1 vaccine for my grandson, he said flat out "NO". This is a doctor who cares about his patients and felt there were too many concerns and would not advise it. Like I said, the doctors, nurses, etc. are not the problem. It is the insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals.
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    Balance

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    Doctors

    Post  Balance on Tue 23 Feb 2010, 12:42 am

    Not all doctors are as wise as yours. Most are AMA trained. The original post certainly requires much reading, most of it is worth it.

    1935: AMA successfully inhibits passage of national health insurance as part of Social Security Act.

    The AMA continued to oppose group health insurance practices in the 1930s, until in 1938 a federal prosecutor pressed charges against the group for threatening to expel doctors who worked for a non-profit cooperative Group Health Association in Washington, D.C. The case was long and complex, and eventually, the AMA paid a fine.

    The group promoted public health issues such as the fluoridation of drinking water and the curbing of drunk driving. It worked on medical education standards, forming a new committee in the 1940s to accredit programs granting medical degrees in the United States. In 1950, the AMA's Council of Medical Education published for the first time a list of foreign medical schools that met the AMA's standards.

    At the same time, the AMA continued to lobby Washington against national health insurance. When President Truman again raised the idea of mandatory national health insurance in 1948, the AMA quickly spoke out against it.
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Nightmoves on Tue 23 Feb 2010, 1:01 am

    Balance wrote:Not all doctors are as wise as yours.

    He felt there was too much controversy over this vaccine and had some issues with some of the ingredients for children. As long as our child was healthy and had no serious health conditions, he would not advise it at this time. We have a good doctor what can I say. I wonder if most of the parents who had their children vaccinated with the N1N1 had bothered to ask their doctor what they thought. They might have been surprised.

    I have not had concerns with other vaccines in the past, just this one.
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    Re: Death By Medicine

    Post  Calibabe on Tue 23 Feb 2010, 3:12 am

    Nightmoves wrote:I have to say that while I don't believe everyone in the medical field is out to kill us, I do believe that the medical industry needs a complete overhaul. After working in the health-care insurance business for 5 years, I saw pros and cons and believe me the cons need to be straightened out. I have said many times that when insurance companies regulations stopped being controlled and they became profit making, all hell broke loose. It is time for the government to step up to the plate and fix these problems. All health-care should NOT be profit making and that includes these big pharmacy industries. It's time to bring CARE back to medicine.

    While your average health-care workers still have the calling to help people, big pharmacy and insurance companies only care about the money. We asked our doctor what he thought about the H1N1 vaccine for my grandson, he said flat out "NO". This is a doctor who cares about his patients and felt there were too many concerns and would not advise it. Like I said, the doctors, nurses, etc. are not the problem. It is the insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals.

    Same with the physician that treats my husband for his hypertension & diabetes. When we asked about the vaccine he said he didn't feel the need as he didn't really see signs pointing to a pandemic. When the seasonal flu kills 35K people in the USA who don't get the vaccine and some who do, and H1N1 has killed 14K worldwide, show me the pandemic. There is none.

    The problem with insurance companies is that people don't understand their policies when they take them out. People think a deductible and co-pay are the same thing. Not so. People also think that since they have a policy that everything in it's brother is covered. Again not so. You also have to know how to fight your insurance company if they decide to turn you down on any procedure that is needed. Since I have the knowledge of what goes and what doesn't it is easy for me and I have pushed the envelope several times, especially when my son had to have surgery and his insurance company tried to back out of paying. When I took their contract line by line and broke it down section by section and said you show me where it says a "cyst" is pre-existing, they could not, and then had to turn around and accept the situation and pay for the surgery. I also had law here in CA on my side because of the Department of Managed Healthcare. Once I trotted those two things out they approved the surgery, date and hospital of OUR choice. However, I tend to be somewhat tenacious when I know that I am in the right. Other people it is really difficult for them to understand how it works. It does need to be much more simple policy to read. As I said the pharmacetucial companies do have patient assitance programs if people cannot pay for their meds. I have yet to see someone turned down that did not provide the information they requested with a valid prescription. While it does take some filling out of paperwork and sending in some forms it is well worth the savings that they have. You can even fax the paperwork to most places and they will accept that so long as you fax and then mail the RX to them directly.

    I don't begrudge anyone making a profit. That is what business is all about. However when you look at the number of people any one insurance company insures, versus the people that they have to cover for illnesses and they gain far more in premiums than the ever pay out for hospital care or patient services at a physicians office.


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